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Sensualaoi and cj discussion about censorship - MOVED to own thread
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From: cj , 91 months, post #1

Moved from another thread -- http://metamorphose.org/thread/show.htp?threadid=20621&page=1&se0=thread&se1=show

"From: guest (Sensualaoi) , 57 mins, post #24

I made no guesses about your identity, but you independently failed the test and are censor-happy SJWS and then resorted to projection. I promise never to help you with your encyclopedia, but I hope another appears in its stead."

From: cj , 91 months, post #2

"I made no guesses about your identity, but you independently failed the test and are censor-happy SJWS and then resorted to projection..."

I stated: "Oh, and if you're going to make accusations about mods. Provide proof.

Don't get angry at us because someone else once hurt your feelings, and then assume you know who we are."

And you still accuse me of being a "censor-happy SJWS".

That is no way to have a civil discussion, you clearly do not respect myself, this site, or the others in this community. In fact you are whining about taking your ball and going home. Grow up. Please show some respect, and engage in constructive discussion.

Your posts weren't censored, they were flat-out removed, as they did not follow the Posting Guidelines or the spirit of this site. Things that have been in place for DECADES (at least in spirit).

If you're going to be offensive, don't do it here - we try to be positive and inclusive here. This isn't a place for anyone to attack or belittle anyone else, especially another member (or group) of this transformation fans community.

Your assertion that "Sissies cry loudest" has not merit, as you provided no proof, nor have you defined the group. Did you mean the self-defined "Sissies" who are proud of who they are, or did you just use it to denigrate anyone who has a TG interest... or a specific TG interest? That's why your first post (16) stayed up until you seemed to attribute it to a negative connotation in post 22.

If you can't stand being kind to others, even when you disagree with their interests and/or lifestyle, then your unwelcoming presence won't be lost here.

You have claimed (post 22) that "my ilk" have taken over management of "a fetish" and "killed discussions" by "insisting only one... view is speakable". We are but ONE WEB FORUM, and we do allow all transformation-related discussion here... as long as you follow the REASONABLE Posting Guidelines. Now, if you are feeling that your voice is being silenced everywhere on the internet... then you likely need to take a look at either what you are saying, or how you are saying it.

I can assure you that the internet as a whole, has plenty of room for all voices, even the unkind, and if you're not being welcomed most places, it is likely because your own words alienating you. The world changes, public opinion changes... things evolve. perhaps you may not have caught up with the rest of us yet. When you do, come on back and ADD TO the discussion.

From: guest (Moose) , 91 months, post #3

Are others allowed to comment on this convo cuz if so just wow

From: cj , 91 months, post #4

Only about my comments / posts. Especially so, if I am out of line.

This is not to be a beat-up or tear-down on Sensualaoi. We all have times when we get a little off-kilter or our words don't come out right. I feel that I've said enough on what I felt needed to be addressed... and I only hope that I did so in a fair fashion, and that my words come across correctly.

From: guest (Sensualaoi) , 91 months, post #5

>does censorship
>resorts to semantics to claim it's not censorship

Well, it's hardly fair to expect me to attempt to defend myself at a handicap when you've deleted my posts a couple of times already. Clearly you are prepared to use your upper-hand whether or not you deserve it.

The main difference between me and SJWs such as yourself is that no matter how reprehensible I consider your views or policies, I would never delete your words for any reason, and certainly not over any words you thought inappropriate to use. I haven't convinced myself I know the objective truth, so I wouldn't impose my views by deleting the opposing ones.

In fact, I am helping a group who are tired of that pc bullshit in tg communities, and we will soon have a tg forum that encourages free debate, criticism, and information on tg media. Ironically, you'll be free to go there and be an ass in my view, and to use any words like a grown-up, even if I am not welcome on your home turf. Would you like me to give you the URL?

And I don't see it as whining and running away; rather, I definitely don't see the sense in contributing to removing holes in any existing encyclopedia when it censors speech in the very forums where submissions ought to be discussed. I was hoping there would be no need to start a second tg encyclopedia when this one looks salvageable, but as I predicted, you failed litmus test for free speech, sadly, and revealed your nature when you immediately deleted my posts. I just can't trust those kinds of moderators to to allow a fair, balanced, and diverse encyclopedia to be built without unilaterally deleting content and then saying it was done in the best interest of society.

From: cj , 91 months, post #6

Again, your posts were not censored, they were disrespectful to certain groups, which is a violation of the guidelines here. Had they been respectful to all, they would have remained visible... and you wouldn't need to defend yourself.

This site has in place several Trusted Users, such as myself to moderate this board and help with combing through submissions to eliminate duplicates, spam, and so forth, as well as to help edit the submissions to keep them up to date, fairly consistent in format, remove dead links, and approve changes. So far, none of the other Trusted Users have felt that removing your posts was out of line or an overreaction. That means that my decision was not me being upper-handed. Do I deserve the power to moderate here - well, many years ago the site owner felt that I was one of the users here who could be trusted with such things, and was deserving of the ability to help, so I guess perhaps.

There you go tossing the SJW thing around again. You keep saying that... I'm not sure that it means what you think it means. If you were using that in a positive way, I'd certainly own up to it. Because I sure as hell do want to see everyone on this rock treat everyone else here with dignity, respect, and some fairness. Why do such things bother you so much? Are you jealous... afraid... ??? I don't know. Call me whatever you want in private conversation, but if you are trying to demean or accuse me of having an agenda, then you better be backing it up, or your words hold no value.

The only things that we impose here, are that you treat everyone with respect, and engage in polite, civil discussion. If you don't like it that is fine. Say so, but do so within those rules. If you don't like a specific group, state that... and YOUR OPINION as to why, then be prepared as your example is considered and maybe validated or picked-apart. You can disagree with others, but you can't disrespect them for existing or having their own opinions. Don't get personal. The guidelines are here to encourage participation in civil discussions, not to allow for trolling, flame wars, or other descents into chaos or emotional rants that do nothing to advance the conversation.

As for your non-PC TG community. I know that you are not alone, and if you want to allow that conversation on your own site, or have found one that does, please, by all means share the link. Then others who visit here have a place to go for that kind of stuff. Also, if you do allow adult material or language... you may want to take steps to prevent those under the age of 18 - or lower for some international locations , from viewing or entering the site. I'd hate to see the site get taken down for something like that - because we still do need those adults-only sites for the more adult conversations.

I'd have to re-read your posts, but there are ways that you could have made your points... voiced your opinions, and still showed respect. Your choice of stating your opinions as fact, and failing to respect some in this community was a violation of the Posting Guidelines which are clearly defined below.

I'd love to see what your "litmus test" is for free speech. Free speech doesn't give you carte blanche to say anything you want at anytime. there are restrictions... and then there's the appropriate and polite. You're in a public forum here - we're asking you to mind your manners while you're here.

I'm sorry that you don't feel us as a fair, balanced, and diverse place, and wish you well in your endeavor.

From: guest (Sensualaoi) , 91 months, post #7

I'm rather busy and it's a waste of time to reply to every paragraph, especially since I'm convinced you're already indoctrinated. So I'll just say that the new censor-free forum where SJWs won't trample over free-thought or free-speech will be at this URL:

tgboard.rf.gd

From: cj , 91 months, post #8

Let us know when it's up.

From: guest , 91 months, post #9

Oh cj, I think the site is working so far.

From: Holly Dunn , 91 months, post #10

The rules here are pretty simple: Don't post copyrighted works illegally, and keep topics OT to actual transformations.

Thank you, CJ and the other mods, for what you do.

It makes me want to come back.

From: guest (abcd) , 91 months, post #11

the rules are sometimes bs, you can't have an opinion that offends other people, that is total bs and censorship...you should be able to say WHATEVER you want and people have the option to stop reading..

It's 2016 stop being such pussies!

ps as usual the same group comes to the defense of each other creating the fake appearance of support by a small group of "power: users"

From: guest (JosieChung) , 91 months, post #12

So abcd , you're offended because you can't freely say offensive things here? Or you're offended because the moderators, who in their thankless unpaid volunteering, nuke offensive comments that undermine the inclusive community they and Paul are trying to build here?

The rules for acceptable behavior here are a pretty low bar that any reasonable adult can easily clear. If that's still too much, you now have another place to hang out . Asking people to behave as reasonable adults who are considerate of others isn't censorship ; it's how civilization works.

From: guest (it_was_fun_while_it_lasted) , 91 months, post #13

It seems to me the problem with this website is the original user base we're adults who found other like minded people and formed a community, but as time marched on a bunch of children (with no social skills and load of entitlement) started visiting. I feel like my favorite library has turned into a Chuck E Cheese, full of screaming brats who are outraged that they can't trade the merchandise they just shoplifted at the mall and want to call everybody a f*gg*t who asks them to keep their voices down. I didn't think the rules were hard to follow or oppressive. I don't understand what all the anger is about. This is a very lonely fetisish/interest to have and I remember a time when I thought I was weird for having it. Then I found fictionmania and metamorphose and discovered a corner on the internet with likeminded people. Okay. I'm done.

From: guest (Sensualaoi) , 91 months, post #14

@JosieChung "Reasonable adults?" You're asking us to abide by your subjective standard which doesn't exist universally; I'm a a well-traveled adult with an education, and I'm willing to hang in bars and talk to anyone from any background or country, including rich snobs and the homeless and I let them all use the words they deem most appropriate. Anyone who can't handle the responsibility of listening should not in my view involve themself in any politics. And condemning tone is one of the lowest forms of argument.

@it_was_fun_while_it_lasted Let's talk about brats and the people you don't like for a moment. How much do you respect the views of your grandparents or even your parents? History usually shows the "brats" shall lead, and if you want to identify as progressive then you already believe that.

I didn't even mention piracy in my deleted posts so that's OT. Still, I'd like to inform you that in Iceland the pirate party is now the 3rd largest party and it has been growing with each election cycle in Scandinavia. Perhaps you should reconsider what should be considered theft and in the best interests of society, particularly before assuming your culture is superior. Donning a holier-than-thou-art attitude in response to those who understand the problems with respecting IP and the detriments actually doesn't reflect highly upon you.

But again, if any of you are man enough not to need to be nannied, there is the other forum for winning and losing debates and getting to the truth without interference.

From: cj , 91 months, post #15

"... you can't have an opinion that offends other people, that is total bs and censorship...you should be able to say WHATEVER you want and people have the option to stop reading."

You can have any opinion you want, just make sure that you note it as your opinion and not rattle it off as fact. You also need to be aware that this is a place for civil discussion, if you want to troll or start a flame war or be disrespectful, then do so elsewhere.

Freedom does have limits. Especially when you tread on the rights of others to PEACEFULLY assemble. Just because you have the right to talk graphically about sex, does not mean that you should do so in a classroom of young children... or in the middle of church services. Your lack of respect would be acknowledged swiftly and penalized accordingly. There is a time and a place for everything. I'm sure you don't want me pissing on your shrubs or burying my dead pets in your front yard... and I respect that those are not appropriate things to do around your house.

"I'm a a well-traveled adult with an education, and I'm willing to hang in bars and talk to anyone from any background or country, including rich snobs and the homeless and I let them all use the words they deem most appropriate."

But would you go into a Gay Club and start spouting off homophobic sentiment? That's what you seem to be endorsing here... the ability to sound off in any way you see fit, whether it is offensive to the crowd around you (the community served here, in this case) or not.

""Reasonable adults?" You're asking us to abide by your subjective standard which doesn't exist universally"

Adults = Humans of age generally recognized to be capable of making mature and sound decisions
Reasonable = able to reason, to weigh the the benefits, limitations, and costs of a situation, plan, and/or action.
Sounds pretty universal to me.

I've been trying to check it out and through 3 different ISPs, and four different browsers, I still can't get through. I've even tried proxying in. Yesterday, I was getting a blank page. Today, I'm getting the Chrome cookies help page. weird. Has anyone else gotten to the other forum?

From: cj , 91 months, post #16

"Sounds pretty universal to me."

You know what. I take that back. The definition may be easily translated to reflect a certain category. But I believe that you may be correct about "Reasonable Adults" not being universal. Some reasonable adults do have topics or issues or ideals... or just times where they are not reasonable at all.

And I don't know what to tell you on that one. On the subject of being a place to freely discuss transformation and TG things, we feel we are reasonable, you disagree... Not sure how to cross that impasse. You've come up with one solution though, that might work... another forum where there are no rules.

From: guest (Sensualaoi) , 91 months, post #17

If I may respond for Abcd, nearly anything someone says should automatically be inferred to be an opinion without the need to continually disclaim in a wimpy voice, "This is only my opinion...but..." That should be self-apparent.

And yes, I'd like for it to be normal to interrupt church services and either question a priest, or call out the priest when he's full of shit the way we can challenge professors. Anyone who calls themself an expert should expect to be questioned; unless you think politicians deserve immunity too? As for "protecting kids," well I don't like when society cobbles and protects them from how adults behave, since it keeps them from making wiser decisions sooner. Plus "think of the children" is more of a fallacy than a rhetorical device.

>Gay club
This hypothetical contains a deceptively complicated set of variables any non-sperg would want to know more about first. Is the considered club public or private space? Is it a "No heteros and non-progressives allowed club?" Next: do the individuals care about challenging bad ideas, or do they only want to masturbate in a safe space? And what makes the words homophobic? By whose standards -- who is the judge? Is it the community or some local criteria? Is it the words that are deemed inherently homophobic, or is it the intent? Is the speaker just making noise, or is there a message that necessitates the words or makes them especially useful? How long would it take to accurately determine the speaker's intent? What are the penalties of not being in line with that standard?

Finally, you ask would I do it? Well, I'd expect the right to say whatever I please, and to bring dislike on myself. I should hope that wouldn't result so much if people made a point of learning not to be easily disturbed. My bone with oversensitive types such as yourself is not understanding that offense can only be taken, not given. Words aren't inherently harmful, you have to choose to be offended since they're just variables for expressing ideas. Grow a thick skin and stop caring about trivial remarks, or you'll never meet anyone outside of a cultural hug-box, and never leave the echo-chamber of ideas.

>I can't get into tgboard.rf.gd
The site uses scripts (javascript,) but the site can be entered safely with the right browsers. Of course, I'm not sure if this will just be deleted again. It's really a terrible thing to ever censor because it forever casts doubt on one's earnestness to have honest dialogs in the future, which is why I intend never to do that.

From: cj , 91 months, post #18

In my observations, opinion isn't always readily discernible from posts that to be informative and factual. I've also seen much of posting on internet forums where the poster believes their understand or idea to be the only true or correct word on the subject. Sometimes this is not really an issue, especially when the room for the most part agrees. However, when it is not a popular opinion in said audience, it should either be noted as opinion and/or backed up by verifiable evidence or fact (when possible). And if you are voicing against the popular or long-held belief, your best chance of being not just heard, but also considered is to show respect, and be civil. That's just seems to be human nature.

Politicians as experts. Those are a very rare few.

I feel that in most places, you probably could challenge the experts with little issue (of course, some will have their feathers ruffled). But that is not what I was getting at. There's a huge difference between challenging an idea or a statement, and attacking a group or individual. And there's a difference still of speaking about something to an audience that lacks the knowledge or comprehension, or to be purposefully offensive to a select audience. You may have the right to do such things, but it's rather ignorant to hold a discussion with people who either lack the capacity or the desire to engage constructively.

I'm not sure where you're from, but I'll elaborate a bit about the hypothetical club.
It is a public club, open to all, known to all in the area to be a club that is safe and welcoming to gay men. Who cares if the individuals care about challenging bad ideas, this is a gay club - they're there to have fun and meet people (assume that is the attitude you will get if you're there to challenge "bad ideas"). I don't know where you're from, but masturbating in public here isn't a thing. Maybe it is in the larger cities, but here you end up on the sex offender registry. What makes things / people "homophobic"... well, my friend, society. The people around you decide what is considered homophobic. But generally "homophobic" means hostile to or fear of homosexual relations or persons who engage in homosexual relations. As for whether words or intent are the trigger, well that depends on your audience.

You know what... with all these questions, you're already indicating that you're getting ready to censor your own words... or perhaps not visit that club (or any similar club in that area). This is just what I'm getting at. There is a proper place (and time) for every conversation. Freedom of speech comes with the responsibility to know when to choose your words wisely, and sometimes when to move the discussion to a more appropriate venue.

The real question as to whether or not people are disturbed, isn't completely on those other people, if you go in intending to offend and/or incite violence, expect the result to be just that. If this was my site, and the site was for friendly discussion, hostile posts would be removed - but I would list such a thing in the site rules or guidelines... Just as things work and are posted here on this forum. It seems like very few are offended by the moderation here, mostly those who feel the need to break the rules... rules which have been in place for many years, but now have some consistency.

I like how you still seem to think that I'm overly-sensitive. Hey, I'm just enforcing the rules here. I don't always like all of them either, but I respect them, and a I do my best to try and follow them.

"... offense can only be taken, not given. Words aren't inherently harmful, you have to choose to be offended since they're just variables for expressing ideas..."

While technically true about the offense. Words are catalysts, and can be used as weapons. If you go into a tense situation and intentionally add to the tension, you're going to be part of the problem, not the solution... and depending on the situation, it just might kill you. Also, words can be directly dangerous. If you yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, and someone dies in the mad rush to evacuate, you can bet your ass that you're going to be held responsible for that death. Were you free to do so, sure... but there are consequences for ones actions (and words). Proper place and time.

As for being boxed in because we have rules here... for other discussions that fall outside of this community or this forum's rules, I use other websites and forums, and real-live groups of individuals. My world does not exist only in this forum. I only come here to be a part of this community, and I follow the rules when I'm here, that's part of being a part of this community.

Oh, and if we haven't mentioned this previously. This is a privately-owned and operated website, hosted in the United States. While we enjoy the freedoms offered by our Constitution, we are held to higher standards here by the site's owner. Those standards are set by the rules / guidelines listed in the Posting Guidelines below, the Submission Guidelines at the Guidelines link on the left, and the FAQ page at the FAQ link on the left, and moderated by the various Trusted Users (chosen by the site owner) who volunteer their time to help out here. So this isn't a matter of me picking on any one or two people. This is a community effort to follow established rules.

I'll have to play some more with getting on the tgboard.rf.gd forum... when I have more time. MSIE, Chrome, Firefox and Opera all failed me on three different OSes. Really strange... but I must have some security setting too high or something.

From: guest (abcd) , 91 months, post #19

Message deleted by The Man. If you cant throw out a thought without insulting everyone, maybe the problem isn't us.

From: The Man , 91 months, post #20

SensualAoi, I have viewed this thread many times over the last few days and i have not seen any of your posts removed or links to your site censored. Can you back up that accusation?

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