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From: Cobe
, 96 months, post #1 |
It is a fact that some (I wouldn't say all) transwoman and transmen
are not pleased with those who have a fascination or fetish with
the idea of changing sex.
Sophie Labelle, the originator of the online comic strip "Assigned
Male", posted this image some time ago. Do you suppose she might
just have had this site in mind when she drew this?
Check it out
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From: guest
, 96 months, post #2 |
What do they have against people who like transformations? I didn't
know this.
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From: trifajar
, 96 months, post #3 |
The word "metamorphose" kinda reffer to this site, IMHO.
Maybe, because we love it as a fetish but they feel it as a fight,
a battle, a struggle.
We love it for fun, but they experience it as a conflict.
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From: Cobe
, 96 months, post #4 |
guest, post #2, wrote, "What do they have against people who like transformations?"
"I think that stuff marginalizes trans women and reduces us to
sexual objects. It also completely confuses the issue of who and
what we are (we're not a bunch of men who decided to "turn into"
women who crave abuse from men). They don't do us a lot of favors.
As such, I'm clearly not a fan. However, ... I don't mind when they
reblog my posts. If they want to clutter their fetish blogs with a
bunch of SFW posts of mine, I say let them... If people are looking
at those blogs and see a trans woman going about her family,
community, and career minded life, then maybe they'll fetishize us
just a little bit less than they did before.
from diaryofatransgenderwoman.tumblr.com
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From: guest (guest1)
, 96 months, post #5 |
quite frankly i don't a shit what she or anyone else thinks!! I
wonder if she wants my opinion that she and other trans people are
mentally ill? or that they are the furthest thing from being
normal, or the norm!!
I also like movies about Aliens and war and yet don't want to take
part or witness a war or alien invasion...
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From: guest (guest1)
, 96 months, post #6 |
Message deleted by cj. Be polite, courteous, and respectful. Please keep the conversations civil. |
From: cj
, 96 months, post #7 |
Why such fire? I've seen no hate spewed at us.
I understand the frustration of being incorrectly labeled by the
ignorant masses. To those with small minds: If you're into TG (or
trans), you're "gay"... if you're into AR, you're a peadophile...
if you're into anthro, you're a sex-freak or into bestiality or
other deviant. Most of the time, these assumptions are unrelated
and untrue.
In the case of those who must fight to live, to be, who they truly
are... well, I'm sure that our interests and desires being somewhat
similar can create confusion among people who lack the
understanding of the difference. This could certainly make their
fight more difficult.
And don't forget, if you consider trans-people "mentally ill"...
imagine what the world thinks of us.
Perhaps a bit more compassion and understanding needs to be put
into the things that we say and do... even here.
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From: cj
, 96 months, post #8 |
I'll remind everyone to think before they commit their post. Review
the Posting Guidelines, before you post.
If this thread continues down the path of baseless, tasteless,
drivel or towards the hateful side. This thread will be locked.
Please keep the conversations civil, and the discussion on-topic.
Thank you!
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From: guest (guest1)
, 96 months, post #9 |
you don't know what I like on this site but I assure you it isn't
mutilating myself (mutilation is crazy!!), no interest in children
or the same sex ...I don't care what anyone does, fuck whoever you
want, dress however you want , do whatever you want except shoot
your mouth off unprovoked and not expect a response. until they
open their mouths and comment they were cool with me ...when this
person made a point of demeaning anything I responded...for the
record I usually go well out of my way not to offend the different
beliefs on this site...feel free to erase whatever you want ...I
understand it is probably offensive
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From: Unknown Orange
, 96 months, post #10 |
if you're honestly mad about what she had to say, maybe step back
and consider how your fetishization of trans people affects them.
because i assure you, you are much more harmful to them then they
are to you.
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From: guest (vup)
, 96 months, post #11 |
What do they have against people who like transformations?
I'd be careful to avoid thinking one person's opinion constitutes a
"they". Sophie's guilty of it too. Using her mind reading power on
all the people (w/out their permission, mind you) who like stories
or scenarios and can readily make a distinction between reality and
fantasy doesn't really speak so much about what such people think
about her as what she thinks about them.
I think someone enjoying a story or special effect or whatever
probably isn't
thinking about real-world trans people so if she had any complaint
that could at least be true it would be that, although I think
that's a little egocentric to think It's the other 7 billion people
on the planet who are supposed to be doing everything in a context
that relates to your life.
If I said "All women think this!" or "All men think this!" or "All
purple people think the other!" would that be insulting. It
probably should be. She's making the same sort of projection-like
thinking that sadly too many people (a majority, it seems to me)
seem to express. Whenever I hear or read someone claiming armchair
crystal ball type of skills to know what tons and tons of other
people are thinking, it tends to send up a red flag for me.
Also, I'd take issue w/ her use of the term fetischizing trans
people but I'll shut up now
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From: cj
, 96 months, post #12 |
"... when this person made a point of demeaning anything..."
On their own blog... expressing their opinion (note that the
statement started with, "I think"
). It doesn't sound as if they were demeaning anything.
It's not like they claimed with authority that their view was
fact... nor was it done on a public board.
Just saying.
It's all in the perception. You seem to have perceived it as some
type of attack, I did not. Misinterpretations are often the cause
of conflict, and while I felt that your reaction was a bit
passionate (and perhaps unfounded), I certainly understand it.
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From: guest
, 96 months, post #13 |
''I think that stuff marginalizes trans women and reduces us to
sexual objects.''
My fantasies do not involve trans people in the slightest, I'm not
attracted in any way shape or form to them, so that argument is
invalid.
There's nothing that makes me cringe more than the Tumblr special
snowflake crowd, just uggggh.
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From: guest (Transtastic)
, 96 months, post #14 |
First, I'm not sure this comic is at all a comment on Metamorphose
or the transformation community. I know it kind of looks like it
might be, but take a look at the URL:
http://assignedmale.tumblr.com/post/114665093482/so-how-was-your-err-transformation-in-fact-i
...I think Labelle is making a joke about people who awkwardly
refer to her transition as a "transformation".
Second point, I don't think Metamorphose is on the radar of most
trans people.
Third point, there are trans people, myself included, who visit
sites like Metamorphose as a way to cope with our gender dysphoria.
My interest in transformation is not a fetish; it's more like
vicarious wish fulfillment.
...which brings me to my main point. To the extent that there are
trans people who are touchy about transformation fetishists, I
think it has to do with the controversy around the concept of
autogynephilia. Autogynephilia is a fetish based around imagining
oneself as a woman. Autogynephilia clearly exists; there are a lot
of people here who would probably qualify as autogynephiles.
The problem is that there's a small contingent of researchers who
insist that there are only two reasons that transwomen transition.
It's either because we're sex-crazed gay men who want to "trick"
straight men into having sex with us and/or believe it would be
easier to be trans than to be gay (because trans people live
charmed lives, naturally), or it's because we're sex-crazed
autogynephiles who take our fetish way too far. These researchers
use deeply flawed borderline unethical methodology to support their
beliefs, and they completely reject the concept of gender identity
and call everyone who disagrees with them a self-deluded liar. And
many people who hate trans people have, in turn, latched onto this
research to discredit the idea of transsexualism.
While a small number of trans people are probably autogynephilic
(among them Anne Lawrence, one of the leading proponents of
autogynephilia), the vast majority of transwomen are not
autogynephilic, and the vast majority of autogynephiles (as we see
in this very thread) identify firmly as male and have no desire to
transition. Transsexualism is about identity, not about fulfilling
a fetish.
Most trans people hate being labeled as autogynephiles because it's
inaccurate and it distorts, minimizes, and erases our identities,
feelings, and experiences; and I think some trans people get
prickly about sites like Metamorphose and Fictionmania because they
worry that people who support the idea that all trans people are
autogynephilic will point to these sites as proof.
I for one think denying that autogynephilia exists, when in fact it
does, is futile, and resenting sites like Metamorphose and
Fictionmania, which have nothing to do with the
transsexualism-as-autogynephilia debate, is not fair to people who
frequent this site and aren't doing any harm by indulging their
fetish. I would much rather acknowledge that autogynephilia exists
and point out the pretty vast differences between transsexualism
and autogynephilia.
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From: guest (barackobrahma)
, 96 months, post #15 |
I think that we could see this question by another pov, in an
analogy. There are people who have fetish based on black people
(sorry, not a native speaker here, so I don't know a better word or
expression)... but on the other side, we know that black people
faces a lot of prejudice, and so on. No harm done there, when they
fantasize about them. So, why should it harm here?
@Transtastic
Damn, you. Could you be less perfect and precise in your comments?
I felt ashamed an so little when I read you... although I agreed
with everything you said.
As an example, heterosexual male with autogynephilia here. =]
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From: guest
, 96 months, post #16 |
"(we're not a bunch of men who decided to "turn into" women who
crave abuse from men)"
Well I understand how that can be offensive for her, but I doubt a
majority of this community "craves for abuse".
She probably saw Paradox Alice, or something by Mako and got the
wrong idea that most people here is like that...
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From: guest
, 96 months, post #17 |
she is just a biggot, we are all different and have different
desires, she just wants to bully someone. Well not me, I'm
perfectly happy being curious and enjoying that curiosity without
acting on it.
Each to their own I say, as long as they are not hurting anyone
else.
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From: cj
, 96 months, post #18 |
"she is just a biggot"
Other than posts 5, 6, and 13, I've seen nothing even close
to bigotry here... even the quoted and linked content didn't hint
of bigotry.
What did I miss... Or are you just interpreting things more harshly
than I?
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From: guest (Air Gear)
, 96 months, post #19 |
http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Assigned_Male
Make of this what you will.
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From: cj
, 96 months, post #20 |
Ah. Thank you Air Gear.
I didn't read any more than just the one panel and its neighbors.
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