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Message From A Male To Female
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From: Forestier , 103 months, post #101

So, Kathie, no regrets at all? Unlike the OP, you don't mind long lines to ladies' room, men staring at your chest or talking to you as if you were a child, fear to be aggressed, and so on? I don't know about your sexuality, but the OP missed the way he could make love with girls? Nothing like that with you?

From: guest (Kathie) , 103 months, post #102

Do I wish that many of those things weren't true? Of course! Do I "regret" being a woman because those things are true, no. They are true of women whether I am perceived as a woman or not. To quote a conversation my mom and I had once "Mom: I don't understand. If I had a choice in this world, I'd rather be a man. Me: So would I! But I am not!"

As for my sexuality... 100% het -- So, I don't miss anything about making love to girls.... in fact, despite being able to identify with their bodies, I think I was terrible at it because I could not, at the time, identify with *mine* enough to "do the right things."

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #103

Thanks a lot.

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #104

Hysteria: "Autogynephilia >>

You probably shouldn't use that term. It's a super loaded and medically discredited idea that was used to lock MtF's attracted to women out of transition until the 90s. If you're looking for something to call people who transitioned for kink-related reasons like I did, "stupid" would probably be better, though ultimately I think I did the right thing for the wrong reasons."

Info about this debate .

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #105

A reflexion from a transwoman about transwomannesse and autogynephila:
https://youtu.be/jWrgqEJsG8s

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #106

Hysteria wrote: "vocal surgery sucks because you can't speak and struggle to communicate" .

The information from this clinic seems much more optimistic: "Voice rest is recommended after surgery for a short period" .

From: guest (Kathie) , 103 months, post #107

Well, maybe it's gotten better but most people I know who tried voice surgery were not too improved. In most cases it did raise the pitch a BIT, but, as most people say, I think the female qualities of the voice is more in HOW you use your voice than the pitch itself. I have heard women with distinctly feminine voices whose pitch is lower than men I know with distinctly male voices.

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #108

But... males acquire their adult voice though the lengthening of their vocal cords (plus their cranial features). The pitch has something to do with the voice; any singer will confirm that.

From: guest , 103 months, post #109

Re: Forestier in #108

At my best I could reach a passable high B-flat in the tenor range. (Luciano Pavarotti could reliably hit the C above that -- well, he did tend to sing flat.) I now can hit a passable G, maybe an A on a good day. So I can just barely sing notes that let me sing easy alto parts. (My falsetto register is pretty much gone now.) I've known old ladies who were more comfortable in the tenor range than in the alto, but they're the exceptions.

There's some overlap, but male and female voices are mostly quite distinct in range.

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #110

To guest 109:
And who are you? A man? A woman? A transwoman? What happened between then and now ?

From: guest (guest 109) , 103 months, post #111

Physically male. Not sure what cost me my high notes and my falsetto register -- chronic illness perhaps.

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #112

Kathie: "To quote a conversation my mom and I had once "Mom: I don't understand. If I had a choice in this world, I'd rather be a man. Me: So would I! But I am not!"

Here is a transguy's perspective on this very subject.

From: cj , 103 months, post #113

RE: "...25 Examples of Male Privilege from a Trans Guy�s Perspective ..."

I think some of the things he mentions are the result of seeing the world through rose-colored glasses. Some of the privileges he claims to enjoy aren't shared by all, so should not be included as "Male Privilege". Not being interrupted, being able to say ridiculous things, taking up space... Yeah, I'm not buying it. I've been interrupted during conversation, making a ridiculous comment or statement often gets called out (or disregarded), and if you're taking more space than prudent in a crowded place, you'd better have a good reason.

Uninvited opinions about your body, people commenting on what you eat, the amount of space you take up... these things are heard by some men too. My question would be... are ALL women subjected to this?

The suddenly being funny is an interesting item. I wonder if it's similar to no longer being told that he should smile, and a minor portion to some of the other items, being a result of his more positive feeling of himself and the confidence and security that he now has. How you feel can change how you see the world, and how it sees you.

There are still safety concerns when you're a guy, though I'm sure that they are much reduced from those of women. So being a guy may reduce those fears... but it shouldn't eliminate them.

"Not Held Accountable for Keeping Rape from Happening" - Men are very much accountable for preventing rape from happening. It's just that men's stake in the effort is much less than women's.

But the one that I found most interesting is the "Older White Guys Treat Me Like a Best Friend". "... I�ve been amazed at how many strangers happily strike up conversation with me in this kind of�fatherly way...Their smiles are warm, their eyes are bright, and they seem eager to bestow any wisdom upon me that I could ever think to ask..."

Well, yeah. A guy talking to another guy, that's just guys talking. But a guy talking to a woman - well there must be some sexual component to it, right? And when you hear all about how women feel like men treat them as if they're less capable, less intelligent - it could certainly make a guy feel less inclined to put himself in a position to be judged as one of those men who treat women different. Which is exactly what he just did. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

A majority of the time I try to start a random conversation with a woman I don't know, I get the feeling that she's a bit uncomfortable with the situation (or perhaps me). Perhaps women just aren't used to a man they don't know being able to talk to them without the man's end goal being that of trying to get her into bed.

Thanks for the link Forestier.

From: guest , 103 months, post #114

Compare and contrast the experiences of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Barres

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Roughgarden

Both worked at Stanford in the same field. Have a guess when one of them had their career go up and when the other had their career go down.

The last link contrasts it best by having the most information in the one place.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115274744775305134

http://www.smh.com.au/national/how-the-sex-bias-prevails-20100514-v4mv.html

From: Forestier , 103 months, post #115

On a lighter tone: Sensations The Opposite Sex Will Never Experience .

From: cj , 103 months, post #116

There's that "interruption" thing again. I'm going to have to seriously do some people watching and check that out. Thanks for the links guest.

Thanks for the lighter video Forestier.

From: guest (Kathie) , 103 months, post #117

The "interruption thing" is true. I can speak from personal experience. Though SOME of it is our own fault. I have noticed that, when interrupted, women don't usually fight to continue speaking. Most of us (myself included) tend to let ourselves be interrupted.

From: cj , 103 months, post #118

Thanks for the confirming input Kathie. That's one thing that I had not considered, and I'm still going to have to keep an eye out for it. Seeing it in action helps with the whole imagining of experience - helps to consider things from another's perspective.

From: guest (Kathie) , 103 months, post #119

There's lotsa things, cj.

The one that always amazed me is how, when dealing with certain things / places (like for example going into an auto parts store like Pep Boys) there is a BIG difference in how you are treated depending on if you are perceived as male or female. Even the same phrase "Can I help you?" has a whole different feel to it. If you're male, it sounds like "I'd like to sell you something." If you're female, it sounds more like "I'll bet you need help because you probably have 20 questions about what you need."

One could argue that these are just how I see things, but I'll bet if I had video'd them before and after you could see the difference as well.

And I always try to see it as someone just trying to be helpful at the level that they guess they need to be. And as long as they adjust their perception based on my responses, I'm okay with that (because, frankly, they are often right). But it's really annoying when I know exactly want I want and yet they still treat me in a condescending manner.

From: cj , 103 months, post #120

I've actually seen the "Can I help you?" difference in an auto parts store. It was interesting to note the difference. Exact same words, but different depth and connotations to how it was said. Turns out she knew exactly what she needed, and the parts guy adjusted accordingly... me on the other hand... we had to search for my part, because...

When you think you know what you're doing, you end up making everything more complicated, and end up with something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

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