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Thread more discussion about LGBTQIA
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From: guest , 120 months, post #81
I guess there could be places in America where gayness is shoved down your throat, but I find it easier to imagine that its just the papers and media constantly going on about gayness being forced down your throat then actual gay people shoving it down your throat. You sound like a Russian propaganda machine.

From: guest , 120 months, post #82
Cj, that was very bigoted and closed minded of you to say. So because you disagree with my opinion or because my opinion isn't the trendy or cute one, my opinion means nothing?
Where is the tolerance? That is what I'm talking about. If people in the gay community and gay movement are going to preach about how people should be tolerant, compassionate, and accepting if an individual is gay then that has to be an all or nothing approach. If you claim equal rights and equality for gay people then you must be a crusader for equality for all. If you are a crusader in the gay movement and support gay marriage then in order for you to not be called a hypocrite you would have to support other things that deal with fighting for equality such as polygamy.
How can a gay couple honestly say that they have the right to get married if they say that a man can't marry two women or a woman can't marry two men? That is hypocrisy.
And yes, I brought polygamy into this. I don't really support or hate polygamy but if we are honestly going to say that everyone is equal then they should be allowed to get tax breaks and cheat the system just like straight couples.
Let's be honest, the fight for gay marriage is purely about money. Gay couples get mad that they can't get tax breaks and cheat America's rigged system just like straight couples do. It's not really about fighting to be accepted by society. It's just about money. I just wish there were some gay people and some gay couples that were brave enough to admit that. I have much more respect for people when they admit stuff like that rather than lying about it and saying it's for a cause or something.

From: guest , 120 months, post #83
I'm just mostly playin with ya, brah. I mean I've come to the realization that maybe people just aren't 100 percent straight or 100 percent gay. Maybe, straight and gay people are maybe 90 to 95 percent straight or gay with the remaining 5 to 10 percent making them free agents every once in a while.
If a straight man can even think about having sex with a man while that straight man is in a female body, then maybe that leaves the door open for the whole "everyone is a little bisexual on some level".

From: guest (Also Interested) , 120 months, post #84
Guest, you seem to fail to understand the logic here. You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. But to make a statement and then to try to convince people to believe you, you have to prove your stance with some sort of support or evidence. You have failed, upon many attempts to have you explain your position, to provide anything. Because you are too lazy to explain it, we have no reason to view your stance as valid or substantial. You are still entitled to have your opinion, but you are by no means entitled to have anyone believe you or support you. It is not dismissing, or a judgment of your person, but rather, of your beliefs. No need to be a martyr or anything, we do judge all the time (if you don't believe a child saying they can't wait for Santa to come, that is a judgment).

I have tried to reach through to you to no avail because you rest on your belief that you are bending over backwards and that you don't like people bragging, but you have no support to show for it. I, on the other hand, can tell you that there are 1,138 benefits, RIGHTS, and privileges denied to gay couples because of federal laws out there, and states not recognizing other marriages. If we could just be married and be treated equally, we would be all set. But the fact is, it just isn't so. If the biological father of a kid dies, the other father doesn't have any rights because they aren't considered married, or the kids father, or anything, and the kid will be sent elsewhere. When a loved one is in the hospital, the same sex partner isn't allowed visitation rights as a family member. Even worse, the person's family can deny the partner visitation if they don't like him/her.

There are many more rights and privileges that the community is fighting for, way beyond "having same sex in their home" and "playing house," and that is what all the hubbub is about in the gay rights movement. The reason why they are all grouped together in the gay community is because STRAIGHT PEOPLE WERE DENYING THEM RIGHTS.

From: guest (Also Interested) , 120 months, post #85
Accidentally hit post, but to continue.

STRAIGHT PEOPLE WERE DENYING THEM RIGHTS. The reason why they have to label themselves and group together and make a distinction "we're the gay community and we want equality" is because NOBODY ELSE was fighting for them. The hope is that one day it is unnecessary, but as of now, it still is.

So your claim of "they are bragging and annoying me" seems incredibly childish and ignorant compared to the "we don't want to lose our jobs, homes, families just for being gay" cries of the gay movement. If you don't want to support your stance, for being lazy or whatever, fine, keep holding onto your opinion, but keep it to yourself. NO MORE! No more going back and forth with all this evidence on one side, and you, quite literally, being a spoiled brat saying "yea whatever that's bad but I want to be validated about my opinion that I'm annoyed by what I perceive to be bragging." That's why no one is on your side here, because you come across as a troll just to argue for argument's sake.

I'm done.

From: guest , 120 months, post #86
I never denied gay people rights and benefits. Just saying'.

Instead of moping around and playing the victim, why aren't you out in public and organizing rallies, protests, and fundraisers for gay causes and gay movements? There is nothing more pathetic than a person that says they support a cause yet they are all talk.
And another thing, instead of ragging on your haters, why not start writing to your local senators and house representatives, or even the president?

This comes off as harsh but why is it my fault or responsibility or blame that gay couples don't have the same rights as straight couples? Why blame me?
Does blaming me accomplish anything?

From: guest , 120 months, post #87
What are you on about, nearly every gay person I know take part in rallies, heck some organise them.

No gay person mopes about, your confusing being homosexual with suffering from depression, now I'm not going to say there are no depressed gay people... But not nearly as many as what you suggest.

Nobody is blaming you, how can comments on a message board be blaming you? People are just responding to ignorant comments,,,, like the one you just posted.

From: guest , 120 months, post #88
There are numerous homosexuals that mope around and play the victim.
Two reasons:
1. They are insecure about themselves.
2. Society has brainwashed people into thinking straight is good and gay is bad.

I have known gay people before and never once heard any of them talk about rallies, protests, and parties. I think some gay people just want to be gay and happy or maybe both because gay did mean happy a long time or maybe gay and gleeful? Word theft is a big problem in America.

From: guest , 120 months, post #89
Really, must be an issue in some states in America, off to pride soon myself, I can honestly say with every gay person I know...

From: guest (contortionist) , 120 months, post #90
This thread has turned to mush... so many unsigned guests.

The original guest who is annoyed that LGBT groups are forcing him to work 24/7 for something and bend over backwards to do something seems to have retreated into into "just sayin'" and "just playin" {sic}.

I think the argument has been won and lost -- insofar as internet arguments between anonymous and pseudonymous posters can ever be won or lost.

The unsigned guest was unable to come up with an example of how he, personally, has been so much as inconvenienced by LGBT activists. His complaints are -- apparently -- directed against a straw man.

His repeated assertions along the lines that "{He} never denied gay people rights and benefits..." are exactly the same as the complaint of any privileged group fearful of losing some unearned entitlement to the disenfranchised minority.

"I never owned slaves, so why does my television have to tell me stories about back people being systematically miseducated and kept in poverty?"

"I never bashed a gay teen to death, so why do I have to bother to change the channel when the news includes a story about a pride march or a candlelight vigil?"

He fails.


From: guest , 120 months, post #91
Aren't you just as bigoted and hateful toward me as the people that hate gays and minorities? A bigot is a bigot.
And you're asking "why am I a bigot", you are a bigot because of your attitude toward unsigned guests.

Personally, I rarely watch FOX News, CNN, or MSNBC. I don't watch mainstream news. If I want to catch up on the news, I watch RT, Al Jeezera America, Ben Swann, and crazy Alex Jones. Thank you.

I never said I failed. I just said I was too lazy. Besides, you have already set your mind up so what's the point.

From: cj , 120 months, post #92
Guest #82, see posts #84 & #85... also...


"Cj, that was very bigoted and closed minded of you to say. So because you disagree with my opinion or because my opinion isn't the trendy or cute one, my opinion means nothing?"

First - That was not bigoted or close-minded. To be bigoted, I would need to strongly dislike you or be stubbornly adherent to my opinions. I don't dislike you, much less strongly (I'm not even sure which guest you are)... and you've presented NO EVIDENCE or ARGUMENT (just OPINIONS) to try to sway my (our?) mindset(s) / opinion(s).

Secondly - Your opinion has value. Your claims without evidence, however, are questionable, and repeating them over and over without providing some examples or verifiable facts gets... well, irritating. Your opinions are welcome. Unsubstantiated claims and baseless "accusations" are going to get you a barrage of grief, questions, and dismissals from those of us open-minded enough to consider an intelligent discussion or even debate.

Thirdly - That was said in a light-hearted way, not meant to be taken so seriously. Hence the smiley face to try to add emotion to an emotionless form of communication.


"Where is the tolerance? That is what I'm talking about. If people in the gay community and gay movement are going to preach about how people should be tolerant, compassionate, and accepting if an individual is gay then that has to be an all or nothing approach. If you claim equal rights and equality for gay people then you must be a crusader for equality for all."

If you claim that individuals in the LGBT community are intolerant, I cannot defend that, as I know of no such individuals, but logic and statistics based on human psychology would probably support that there are.

If you claim that the LGBT community as a whole is intolerant, then I CHALLENGE YOU to back up that claim. Historically, there are examples... but recently... ???

THAT is exactly what we're trying to make you aware of. If you are going to make claims, show examples, link to facts, state your reasoning. Rational, intelligent people are not going to change their minds if you don't educate them with FACTS.


"If you are a crusader in the gay movement and support gay marriage then in order for you to not be called a hypocrite you would have to support other things that deal with fighting for equality such as polygamy."

Marriage to one person does not equal marriage to multiple people. Apples and Oranges - related, but not the same. However... I'm sure that there are members of the LGBTQIA community that support polygamy.

LGBTQIA deals with gender issues that run askew of the "mainstream" norm. Polygamy deals with number of spouses. And when was the last time that you heard of a polygamist being beaten to death or raped because of their lifestyle?

From: cj , 120 months, post #93
Now I'm curious as to what the views of polygamists are towards LGBT folk.

From: guest , 120 months, post #94
I never said every member of LGBT or whatever you want to call was a bigot or intolerant. I was trying to point out the fallacy that American society has when it comes to minority groups and bigotry and intolerance.
We have this silly notion that if a person is from an oppressed group/minority group then that person gets a pass and can be a bigot and intolerant.
Being oppressed does not excuse bigotry or intolerance. Just because you are treated badly or oppressed does not give you a free pass to do the same.
Again, please read. I am not saying every one from LGBT is like that. Again, please read, I am not saying everyone from LGBT is like that. Every group has bad apples and extremists but in American society, we judge entire groups of people on the actions and attitudes of extremists and bad apples.

I stand by what I said about LGBT and polygamy. If a gay person or whatever claims to want equality when it comes to marriage rights and claims that they are a tolerant person then by saying that they would have to support polygamy as well. If they don't, they are a hypocrite.
Personally, I respect a gay person that is just honest if they are intolerant and bigoted toward polygamy and polygamy enthusiasts. Again, not saying every gay person is like that. Please read, again not saying every gay person is like that.

From: cj , 120 months, post #95
Finally. Something we can chew on. :-)

I'll get to your marriage rights in a moment, I just want to make sure that we understand that there are deeper issues here where being LGBT etc. would not equate with polygamy.

I think I'm getting where you're trying to go with the marriage rights. And for that issue alone, well dang. I'm not sure where to sit on that. My personal thoughts and bias say that the LGBT community shouldn't embrace polygamy... because it's more of a choice in partnership rather than a biological (hardwired) part of who they are... yet part of me is siding with you on this one.

Marriage being a social construct, once used to ensure not only the survival of offspring, but to help them thrive (IIRC), is becoming almost out-dated / unnecessary (sometimes unwanted). From what I've observed of human nature, it seems that a committed monogamous relationship isn't very common these days... nor is such a relationship common elsewhere in nature.

Even though I still hope to one day find that special someone with whom to share the rest of my life... I wonder if perhaps the whole marriage thing is already on its death-knell.

The only real tangible benefits of marriage are probably assets, taxes, and legal claims. Of course there are other emotional and "spiritual" benefits (some of which are also benefits on individual health) from marriage - but the law doesn't deal with those things.

I see no reason that the same benefits (and liabilities) afforded to "traditional" married couples shouldn't be extended also to "non-traditional" marriages. And that these "marriages" be defined as the union of two or more consenting adults into a exclusive partnership whereby they equally share the burdens and liabilities, rewards and assets, property and possessions, and responsibilities of life as they are able, willing and agree to do.

Or something like that. I think I'll stop now - tired minds are not to be trusted.

From: guest , 120 months, post #96
I have never been married and right would probably go insane if I was married. I personally couldn't handle the stress and drama of it.
With that being said, I think American society and Uncle Sam have perverted marriage. Marriage isn't really marriage anymore. It's more of a contract between individuals which gives them benefits and access to things that single individuals can't get since they are single.

For the record, I'm not an enthusiast for polygamy or a cheerleader but at the same time, I'm not going to shun someone because they participate in it.
I think that if you are all consenting adults and there is no incest involved, then why not? Married couples would have swinging parties in the 1970s so why can't a man have more than 1 wife?

We are too judgmental and shunning when it comes to sexual activities. I mean yeah, you have to pick your moments. You don't want to be telling your grandma that you're a dominatrix or use sex toys.

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